I miss the old days.

Y2k, that's where.

That rant wasn't "pretentious, long-winded, or melodramatic". It was true. Too many media outlets, parents' groups, and others want to give children a sugary-sweet view of the world for 18 years and then push them into reality, where they'll be lost.

I still haven't gotten around to seeing Watership Down....

Sadly the world has reached a whole new level of sensitivity and over-protectiveness. This has gotten much worse especially recently, things that wouldn't have been "controversial" or "daring" as early was the 90's are now considerent Hot shit in the 2000's, and i find it saddening. I remember watching Watership Down on the vid when i was a little kid, it was a shock compared to stuff i was used to but i enjoyed it, another program thats similar if you wish to check it out is The Animals of Farthing Wood which was a tv series for kids on BBC, it was pretty similar in that it showed the brutality of nature, although if you want to find it you'll be hard pressed as it hasn't really seen much of a release. I agree with you on this matter completely and all i can say is that hopefully the media will take a trip down reality lane before we all become media sensitive and deny people and their kids the realistic and potentially brutal but honest and compelling stuff they should have.

...this is why I love old movies. New children's shows also pale in comparison to old ones like Transformers, GI Joe, and Thnudercats. While I do admit some new shows like Avatar are incredible, the glory days of old animation have long passed.

I agree with you, movies back in the day we're a lot better.

I think I'll join in the melodramic ranting! :O

I watched watership down when I was very little, and it scared the be-jesus out of me... It's a dark film about how shit life is, almost nothing good happens to those poor rabbits. The book was written in darker times, when English society was struggling with pollution from industrialisation, economic issues, diseases like polio and rubella, the arms race and impending war. Darker times will come again, and from those times darker stories will appear to warn and prepare our children, until then I'll be dancing around with my kids to the madagascan monkeys. Have you seen Persepolis? It's a new film about a girl who grew up in Iran during the revolution, I'll be showing that to my kids, we'll maybe when their 10 or 12, so that they appreciate the delicate balance of society.

Flip the channel to nickelodean. There's a 95% chance you will see a show with a talking monkey.

Soccer moms. That's where we went wrong.

According to the FCC, one person equals one million, and that's really all it takes to change how something is displayed on the media.

For example, even Fox Kids, which is now 4Kids, used to have shows like Escaflowne where you'd see characters die on a regular basis. In fact, there was an instance where you saw the hero slice his rival's face open, blood and all, UNCENSORED. This was a Saturday morning cartoon show broadcast over the air; you didn't need cable!

Include shows like Monster Rancher and Roughnecks where death and deceit are commonplace and even the 90's had some pretty explicit stuff by today's standards.

However, again, soccer moms caught on to these shows and decided to speak out, thus limiting what people are able to watch.

I know my comment sounds basic and almost unsupported, but it's the truth. Shows like Ultimate Muscle and One Piece were canned because the ever-growing explicit content just made the cautious audience and studio say 'forget it' and move on.

Good old days...

Now days its just fantasy movies, that dont show the people or kids the real world where not all is that "happy".

Watership Down is surprisingly brutal and powerful for a kids film.
It's still difficult to watch even today.
Even the artwork for the video featured one of the characters with his head caught in a rabbit-snare..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia /en/4/42/Movie_poster_watership_down.
jpg

When the film was released in the U.S the poster was considered too scary for kids so they were unsurprisingly forced into giving it the "Disney" treatment...

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00 005UF84.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

It received a lot more complaints because parents were fooled into thinking it was a nice, fluffy cartoon for the kids.

I still get moist eyed when I watch The Last Unicorn... and there was another one about 4 wizards, damn I wish I could remember. It used to be one of my favorites... I want to watch it now T-T

I think it was called The Dragon's Flight or something.

You are true, I believe. But I love pretty much every movie I've seen mentioned above. Incredibles? Loved it. Madagascar? Pretty good. All Dogs go to Heaven? It's been years, but I think I used to love it. Watership Down? Well, never heard of it. Ice Age? Loved it. And while I doubt I'll still have a lot of the innocent movies I used to love in 15 years or so, I'd still show them to my kids if I did. I'd show them movies that I think we'd like. Sure, it won't tell them about what life is like, but I can teach them that in a different way.

On a somewhat related note, I'm dying to watch Toy Story again. <_< >_>

Using Don Bluth films to insult the Incredibles?
I agree with the sentiment that kids films these days are too wimpy.
But you're using WATERSHIP DOWN....a FILM about RABBITS violently escaping poison gas and tearing the fucking SHIT out of each other....

....and you are comparing it to The Incredibles....a tribute to silver age comic books about a dysfunctional family of superheroes living in the suburbs made by Brad Bird?

yeah ok.

At least we have newgrounds to satisfy our gritty cartoon needs...

this is the year 2008, where if you stick a bunch of famous celebrities on an animation project it automatically sells millions and teaches kids that it's perfectly okay to have no fucking sense whatsoever. Welcome.

This is why I hate children. They are overly ignorant, which is something I despise.

that film os showing at the film channel all the time and it just seems like some fucked up shit.

also tell the kids to see wall E instead

I am so glad that i was raised on the old movies, teaching me about the world a lot better than "If you try hard enough, it can happen" I hate that saying with a passion

you suck

When originality died, we went wrong.

Pixar always seems to come up with great ideas and present them in a truly artistic way. They don't just whip out a mediocre storyline and make it CGI just to make it popular like Dreamworks keeps doing.

Classic Winnie the Pooh owns because it has plenty of charm and creativity, and is now considered a true classic. They shouldn't have ruined it with those stupid Book of Pooh puppet/costume/whatever shows.

I haven't seen Watership Down or The Last Unicorn, though I know a little bit about both. Maybe I ought to check them out soon.

I remember All Dogs Go to Heaven. It was one of my favorite movies.

I blame soccer moms. And I think 'All Dogs Go to Heaven' is available on DVD which isn't a dying media, or at least not for any time soon.

"What would you consider to be the three most daring *mainstream* kids movies of the last decade?"

see you put mainstream there to keep me from listing things like Nocturna and Triplets of Belleville.

but I'm pretty damn sure Watership Down was not a mainstream film.

Totally agree with this.

I totally agree, some of my biggest inspiration is from don bluth and Ralph Bakshi films

Don Bluth is pretty old. He really needs to do that Dragon Lair animation that he wants to do.

Once upon a time, kids' movies prepared them for the real world.

Now, it's all laced with the "let's be friends" hippy bullshit.

We went wrong in 1928 or whenever...when religious zealots got into Hollywood. Don't get me wrong, you religious people can stand kneel stand kneel and eat your crackers and drink your grape juice and dip babies in 'water', but it should remain among those that want it. I mean look at the 'concerned parents of america' or 'parents movie regulation board' these people are the ones you want to blame for the true debauchery they claim to be "movies". They get their claws into everything and ruin it. You can't even smoke in movies anymore without it being pg. These are the people that are responsible for the ongoing mental breakdown psychosis of the american youth. We should go back to the days of caligula and deep throat; heh, 70's. Whatever...the wheel should go full circle here shortly, and pantless parties and roman-esque orgies will once again occur in great frequency. Until then, hunker down with your Grand Theft Autos, your Dooms (the good ones) and your gritty old school comic books, and the trusty VHS...and wait out the storm.

God, I hate all this 'decency' bullshit. It's turning into the 50's again.

I had a babysitter who took a quick glance at a copy of "Fritz the Cat", thought it was a kids movie, and sat me down to watch it when I was 6. Simply put, it was the best thing to ever happen to me.

I have to disagree.
I loved All Dogs go heaven when I was younger but I don't see anything wrong with the cartoon movies nowadays. The world is full of so much negativity viewers deserve a happy ending in a movie.

all that censoring,
and 14 year old american girls getting pregnant..

hmm, what a world

Holy Crap! Is that a rabbit eating someone!?

There may not be many dark or realistically violent mainstream animations these days, but there weren't many before the 70s, or even during the 70s and 80s either. Most mainstream animations are made for young children as entertainment - and if they watch Watership down, they will watch it as entertainment, not for life lessons. I'm partially with you, I'd love to see a healthy mix of animations with different ratings in theaters instead of ONLY toons for young kids. But I don't understand why you'd have to show your kids an animation if you wanted them to see how difficult and horrific life can be. You've got plenty of live action movies to chose from, like 8mm or Requiem for a Dream etc. There will be dark(ish) animations to come, they're definitely not dead. Also, I'd say reading Watership Down is more important than watching the animation.

I totally agree...now I'm not suggesting a good replacement here but I much prefer asian animated movies like Princess mononoke, Spirited Away and such...they're still a bit kiddy but brings harsh stuff to the table...

In general I think a lot of art forms have gotten soft with time...more and more things are taboo...everybody complains about everything...
Just as a personnal experience, working at ubisoft on Farcry 2, we had all kind of issues with the animals in the game. There's a lot of pressure and debate when you want to be able to kill a fucking gazelle in a fucking game. There can't be blood or a realistic behavior no, that would be innapropriate. So when you can't let people kill a gazelle in a M-rated game, don't wonder why kid's movie are all about candies and sunshine. We're getting too civilized for our own good. My 2 cents.

Kids movies are all comedies nowadays. but things like Madagascar make me smile, cause it has the adult jokes mixed in with the kid ones

Another good one is The Secret of Nimh, I remember watching that as a kid a lot. It not a Watership Down, but its no Madagascar either.

Super rats ftw.

AMEN! I mean for god's sake ppl! we have been degenerating and gettin more censorship prone. i'm glad u brought this up, negative1, cause this is teh reason so many ppl like anime: ITS NOT AFRAID TO SHOW ANYTHING>>>! it has all the action and 'raunchiness' of teh old cartoons.

nowadays itz all about the 'fun for the whole family' rated G bullshit that has no realism watsoever. When i see that lion from madagascar actually graphically eat that zebra in madagascar, i might change my mind. any kid i walk past who says he loves madagascar, i will show him either Ultimate Hellsing OVA or a live action lion mauling a zebra...either is a good dose of mortality. And maybe some scenes of Darfur or teh Holocaust or sometin.

All this talk reminds me...i need to c some more old cartoons. all of teh good shit was made afore i was born T.T

This post is contains the reasons why I rarely go out and see animated movies this day and age. Not to mention I cannot think of any hand-drawn animated movies being released in theaters as of late (besides maybe anime like Paprika), it's all computer CG. I think there is one, but I cannot be sure.

Like most people, I blame the "keeping it safe" audience. An animated film should be able to kick the audience off a cliff if it wants to, if you know what I mean.

Still have to see Watership Down.

Well, I always thought "lead by example, not by force" was a great way of putting it.

I'm under the impression that it's up to us to create the stuff that's in our soul. Mainstream will always be mainstream, but if we want to try to change it the only way we can do that is just by doing it.

I'm probably just a bit of a nostalgia twat when i say this, but I have to agree with you. Animated films don't even bother trying to have a deeper meaning or anything dark period. Sure, dark and gritty is not a requirement for an animated film to be good. But it just seems more daring, taking a risk that'll pay off in the end.

I myself grew up watching Don Bluth films like All Dogs go to heaven, The Secret of NIMH, The land Before Time etc. I never really got into pixar 3d stuff. I found most of it to be just....kind of cold and only caring about including pop culture references and trying to get as many famous people to voice characters as they can.

But The incredibles was probably Pixars only decent film. I might be coming off as ignorant or just old fashioned to it all. but that's just the way I see it all.

wow man. i made a related post on a blog of mine. Its a problem that we have to deal with. It is up to us to preserve the good of what was animation and writing. This "politically correct" society of ours blocks creativity and actually dilutes our minds. Again, only we can preserve and pass on our grand tales and favorites to the next generations to come. If we don't, they may never learn.

Aye, I remember the fox and the hound. That had some grit to it, a good childrens movie but with some reality.

I blame political correctness and the desperation of news stations to jump on any story where some kid got killed/wounded due to the influence of vidya games or anime.

Also what's sad is that recently I saw All Dogs go to Heaven and Secret of NIMH in the $5 DVD bin at wal-mart, but I'm too poor to afford much of anything, especially DVDs right now.

But yeah, I do miss the cartoons that I grew up with.
An animation I've had heavy cravings for is "Witch's Night Out", made in 1978 with Gilda Radner as the witch. :3 I remember my mom wondering why they would have a gal wearing a bikini showing cleavage in a kid's movie...
I also enjoy the animated bits from Creepshow and Creepshow 2.
There was also Fantastic Planet, Light Years, Heavy Metal..... probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting about. My folks have like 5,000 video tapes of all sorts of things in all sorts of orders... like having "The Car" taped after "A Wish for Wings that Work". :P Still, it's a major treasure trove of my childhood.

agreeing with you might send the world into an apocalypse. Since i already booked my airfare to London i'll wait until after that :P

"I'm not sure kids would ever watch a movie with the *intention* of it being a life lesson. That's just something that's bound to happen if they find insightful on a subconscious level."

Fair enough... We all know 'the industry' is a business and will always put forth their best efforts to appeal to the majority. We need more small animation studios that are willing to cut their losses when going up against giants like Pixar and DreamWorks - who's Madagascar 2 has already earned 63 mil over the damn weekend. Big difference compared to All Dogs at 27 mil (over 20 years) and Secret of Nimh at 15 mil. It's hard to get financial support when making a gritty and graphic children's movie.

If you're looking for a hard copy of Secret of Nimh, check Walmart for 5 bucks. And to be clear about 8mm - I was being facetious. It's a terrible movie anyway, I hate Nick Cage, I hope life vomits in his drink and kicks him down the stairs and he gets his throat ripped out by a rabbit.

Well what I'm saying is rather than put a damper on the idea of making something the way you want, just make something they way you want. Mainstream will be however it is gunna be but it can't stop us from creating what we want. If we just succumb to the idea that it's hopeless to battle the mainstream they why even exist. We have so many tools right now to help us create anything we like. The only issue is time and if it's that important to anybody they will spend the time to create.

I really don't see why people get so depressed by this mainstream thing. If anything it makes me more motivated to know that I don't have to make cookie-cutter Hollywood garbage and I won't.

btw, I haven't seen it but Watership Down looks amazing. Real haunting too.

I completely agree with this, I really enjoyed the older movies, the storylines were so much more indeph and the comedy was witty.

Now the most you get is a straight line plot with slapstick comedy for kids to watch, and parents wonder why kids are so ADHD and can't focus on one thing for a while.

Though you mentioned the incredibles, I actually believe that pixar should not be considered a "kid movie" company. Their movies are very mature, but with can reach children as well.

The Incredibles has some mature content in it. The family issues where the wife suspects her husband of cheating n' such. Kids wouldn't understand that. Wal-E on the other hand is amazing, definetly not for kids, so many social statements in there its crazy.

Anyways you've inspired me to check out my old movies and pop some in, I need to check out Watership down movie.

QFT, Egorapter. It just makes the things we create that much more enjoyable.

I grew up with movies and TV shows for kids that showed death with no more thinking, animal gets run over by a car and dies. As simple as that, that's life for you, no other tries.

when will you return to anitude?

OI!!!
Right on brother, I cant agree with you more. and to be honest I couldn't love those mutts more, I can recall the glory days of setting on the floor of my parents house watching it again and again and again.
Those old movies were one of the reasons I decide to become an animator. As a matter of fact, many of my teachers have all worked on multipule Bluth films. makes me pround be be taught by them.
cause the changing of the storys in america media, I drifter to animae almost 13 years ago, but now it's gotten to the point that it's no diffrent. I'm constantly looking for a good story in any form of animation, but rarely do I find anyhthing worth it. as for the incredibles, is that it was actually one of the better 3D films that exist, although the properties for a much darker theme is their, and admitingly they did not take it, thanks to some veteran Animation Drectors, the movie came out well.

What worries me even more is the kids shows, which is even worse than most of the movies...One of my all time favorite kids shows were an anime called "mumin-troldene" or the "moomin-trolls" (which i highly recormend ppl should still go watch)...instead of going the easy way which i think alot of children shows does today, they went a different way and choosed to show two sides of one coin, that life can suck and its just not all a fairy tale. i remember i had nightmares of one of the creatures in the show, yet im sure it kinda made me more "grown" up and more mature by being so...the creature was called the groke and i still think its fucking scary :P, yet all the episodes carried an message and not one of those "everybody should be friends, and we should never say anything bad bla bla bla happy shit bla bla"...but a more real message about life...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RxfCEYY L2A4 (its in swedish but just watch it anyways) - In this clip the groke is trying to get something back, two small "kids" stole from her, keep in mind this is a kids show, for 5-10 year olds(or older)....

If you want an impression of the idiot parents who are trying to solve the problem by being overly sensitive, look no further than my parents. When I was little they barred me from watching "The Simpsons" because I had a habit of repeating what I watched on television, and they were afraid I'd emulate Bart Simpson. I guarantee you, if my parents weren't the ill-informed dumbasses that they've eventually come to personify today, I'd have grown up a vastly different person. VASTLY different.

I think a lot of what parents are afraid of is their children being traumatized, and then having to deal with the time and energy of comforting them after the experience. A lot of the comforting process comes with the children asking some very hard questions that the adults have no way of knowing how to answer, because a vast majority of their lives have been just paying for the well-being of their family and not thinking about the "hard" questions of life.

And that's why movies and television have gone wrong. People have no idea how to answer these difficult questions, and since they're terrified of being usurped in intelligence by innocent questions from a curious but terrified child, they simple censor the materials that would otherwise bring those questions to the forefront. Besides, why would they want to disrupt the relative comfort of their "safe" financial situation?

Thus the children of today seem like spoiled rotten little idiots because nobody attempts to give them anything more than the most sweet depictions of life with a healthy dollop of ignorance. I wouldn't go so far as to say that not watching "Watership Down" is going to leave them lost when they suddenly take a look at "reality" at 18 years old. But the pussification of our comfortable society is just uncanny, especially when it comes to intellectual questions that go deeper down the rabbit hole than we could have expected:

"Why did they have to die, mommy?"

Although I've never watched Watership down, but judging by that picture, its something I might want to see. As for All Dogs go to Heaven, I watched that so long ago I don't remember anything:(. The Lion King should have been another one of your examples.

Your post and all these peoples comments have been a very entertaining read that I wholeheartedly agree with, thank you my good sir.

One good example of a fairly recent yet quite violent film is 'Princess Mononoke', which you will have probably heard of if not seen. One of the final scenes did make me go tense when I saw a decapitated wolf's head (quite graphic). I watched it when I was 12.

I also think 'Finding Nemo' nicely dealt with fairly adult issues of a father being disturbed after his wife and kid's deaths while fathering his own son, being an overprotective parent and someone with short term memory loss in an animated kids film. There were also scary parts.

Kids should be allowed to watch any film they want to by the time they are teenagers and should be encouraged to do so by their parents. Take the scene from 'Saw' when the guy saws off part of his leg, the ear-cutting scene in 'Reservoir Dogs' or some of the particularly graphic violence in 'Fight Club'. They would make a 13 year old go tense at the time, but not upset or harmed after seeing it (and even if they were, it would be very temporarily after watching either of those examples). 'Kill Bill' may have litres of gore in it, but how could it possibly harm even a 9 year old.

Ironically, most of the parents who complained about violent movies generally are more controlling parents whom their kids generally resent later on, usually making them worse off than the kids with parents who didn't care in the first place.

AMEN

I just gotta say I agree with you wholeheartedly on this. On a related note, I'm worried as to where our culture in general is going. It's a very rare day when I see something in "mainstream" culture that really pushes me to think about it. Maybe that's why I'm a fan of stand-up comedy; the good comedians unhesitantly point out the ironies of society and cause the audience, even whilst laughing, to consider the situation, to simply think at all.

In the same vein as those who posted about "Princess Mononoke" and "Spirited Away," two of my favorite films are Otomo's "Akira" and "Laputa: Castle in the Sky," another Miyazaki classic. Both deal with the corruption that comes with power, and in the end of both films a lot of people die. But these newer films that get pumped out like candy will make transhumanists of us all; no matter how long we try and put off the sadder stuff - whether through biotechnology or by shielding our kids' eyes - it's going to come eventually, and simply knowing about these things isn't going to warp anyone into some kind of social deviant.

Except maybe the good kind. :-P

I'm going to say this without reading that big long paragraph, sorry.

I don't really miss the old days that much.
I do admit Madagascar sucks, but there are still 2-D animations that kids enjoy.

Yeah, I remember when animated movies and such were more dark and serious.

Take "The Land before Time" franchise. The first one was great because it was pretty dark and serious for a kid's movie but the sequels are so sugar-coated that even the biggest sweet tooth would be screaming for insulin.

"All Dogs go to Heaven" is awesome and I remember seeing my little sister crying at the end where Charlie dies. It may have broken her heart but it's reality. No matter how young you are, you can't escape reality and will have to face it one day.

The 70's, 80's and 90's were my favourite years of animated movies because they were more dark and serious while being fun at the same time. Nowadays, step out of line and we get angry overprotective mothers sending in complaints.

Hurrah for late 20th century cartoons!

It seems I had a childhood in the midst of the emerging 'fairy gumdrop bullshit' as you most accurately phrased it. I know what i've missed though, after seeing some of these older animated films. Watership down is probably my favourite animated film that i've seen. I need to see that 'All Dogs go to Heaven', I haven't heard of it before now.

What do you mean when you say that The Incredibles was daring? I thought it was just as stupid as the rest. Or did I miss something?

Anyway, you are completely right about this, but it isn't just films, not at all. The whole world is starting with all this political correctness goat puke. The idea sounds good: being able to make everone seem as respected as everyone else. But really now, nowadays some people are saying it isn't right to call a black man 'black', you have to call him a 'man of colour' what the hell? Also, it isn't right to say someone is overweight, they are 'abdominally challenged'. I don't know what it's like in the US but over here (UK) it really is like that sometimes. The New Zealand rugby team weren't even allowed to perform the Haka on the pitch before the game, they had to do it in the bloody changing rooms.

The worst case of this is when I went into a cafe, I looked at the menu and what did I see? There was no black coffee or white coffee. No. There was coffee with cream and coffee without cream. That incident really made by boil up inside.

The biggest problem with this though is that it really prevents us from being able to communicate with other people. If I was curious about say a friend who was Hindu, and I wanted to ask them something out of curiosity, but it was a 'sensitive issue' I would be afraid to ask. This would then make me miss out on their particular beliefs or ways of living, which far from making everone respect everyone else, would push the two cultures apart. Understanding something is the first step to accepting something after all.

That was only partly related to this post but I feel that it still has some credibility. Also, I needed somewhere to vent off how I feel about how ridiculous this whole thing is =]

I feel better now.

Hehe, whoops. You live in Canada, not the US, sorry about that =]

i couldn't agree with you more. although i don't know if watership down was intended as a children's story, but i'm not sure.
but yea, all this wholesome bull isn't helping children at all these days. they're too coddled and protected so reality slaps them in the face twice as hard as past generations.
all dogs go to heaven was the shit. for some reason right now i'm reminded of The Last Unicorn and Little Nemo i can't remember how 'dark' those were, though. ever see the anti-nazi looney toons?

Ah, yeah, Lion King is another one of my favorite classics. And it's not as sugar-coated as some of the movies today. They don't show Scar getting ripped to pieces by hyenas, but at least they acknowledge the fact that things can actually die. Also, when I think of All Dogs go to Heaven, I also think of Oliver&Company for some reason. All this talk makes me want to go through all of the crates of VHS movies in our basement.

God, I love Disney and Pixar.

As boogley pointed out we're in a time where we isolate our selves from the world's problems. As a collective we block out the problems facing the worst off on the planet and we pass this oblivion on to our children. We even shield them from what we consider the worst parts of our society by traditionally moving out to subebia to escape the horrors that are poverty and crime (for most middle aged whites, even if they won't admit it, that means some minority or another).

They then pass their views onto their kids attempting to hide them away from this oh so dangerous world and mask their eyes with movies of light hearted themes. And that masking is healthy and in a genetic sense natural, nothing is going to change those people from wanting to shield their children from societies "imperfections".
The problem is the market has simply shrunk for those darker movies, if every parent who wanted their children to see those movies went to the Triplets of Belleville and it grossed a significant amount of money, I can guarentee more movies that stray from the lighter side would pop up. Studios, in the end, need to make money. No one person can really change the market and you certainly aren't going to modify the views of over protective parents.
In the end you should just enjoy you're children get the "advantage" that theirs didn't, thus they breed more succesfully, show their children these movies who then breed and so on; all while the children of those over protective parents wallow in their destroyed views of the world only to die alone and depressed unable to pass their cutesy movies down or vice versa. Darwin wins once again?

I remember "All dogs go to heaven" it was a great show and I loved it at the time. Though I know not of all the other shows you speak of. Though seriously I'd be scared to show a seven year old a picture of a blood covered rabbit. Don't you think the child may have some thoughts about touching the school rabbit?

I mean mind you they'll believe everything they see on TV so if they see a rabbit going on a massive killing spree they'd be hella scared to go near it. At least that's my guess. Though it's true the "Try hard and you'll manage it!" is bull.

I say that I should fuckin' write a script and make my own series showing modern life, with deaths, love, passion, depression, money and drugs and all the shit that happens in modern life.

Not just the "Aww man I got fired from my job have to go find another one" but one that involved the death of the father because while he was a normal working man they had financial debts and at night had to do some drug dealings. Something that dosn't just show the happy happy joy joy part of life but also the beatings and shit part of it.

if they'd let my cartoons to tv everything ´'d be fix'd.

Dude, I'm 12 (I know, underage, blah blah), and even for me, TV is so drastically different than when I was a lot younger, watching Nick, CN and Disney...
Now, most shows on the 3 channels have toilet humor everywhere! It's dumb as fuck! When I switch to Nick sometimes, I see crap 85% of the time, no joke. That's why I watch Comedy Central and Fox mainly; kid shows nowadays SUCK. Sometimes, Disney has a few good shows and stuff (I'll admit it, I love Suite Life), but it can't live up to the old days...
Well, at least there's still kid shows and movies being made at all...

Figures, though, that Toy Story is the ONE VHS I can ever remember owning that I can't find in my basement. I found the sequel, but I want to see the original... I DID watch Bug's Life, Emperor's New Groove, Ice Age, and a few others. Ah, memories.

So let them be inspired. Who are you to say what people should be inspired by?

Have you seen WALL-E? I found it to be a really subtle and sophisticated piece. It kind of proved to me that you can sort of sidestep bleakness while dealing with some pretty serious themes.

There's a lot of shit out there now, but surely there are films that break the mold.
I have the triplets of Belleville sitting on my shelf, haven't quite explored that one yet. But right next to it is Watership Down and Tale of Tales, which are both old films that are pretty damn great. So I dont know, for the most part I guess there has been a shift.

I remember the good old days, where I could find a dark cartoon movie, just like Watership Down. I remember way, way, WAY back when I could see a movie on cartoonnetwork that had swearing in it. Nowadays, cartoons are almost soley for little kids (besides Family Guy and a few others) and the occasional anime.

The older, the better. Just look at the original animations, theyre much funnier than modern day ones.

All though Wall-E is cool in a messed up way :D

This is actually one reason I like Daredevil comics (and some others like it, for thaqt matter). Yes, I know it's not animation, but still. It doesn't try to show him as a good guy who always defeats the bad guy with nothing (or almost nothing) bad happening to him. It shows that just because you're a hero, good things don't always happen to you, it shows that life often times is going to suck, you will lose a lot of things and people that you love, that good people will often suffer, and bad people will often get all the good things. It also shows that through it all, the only thing that can always keep you going is sheer will.

In short, Daredevil, while not an animation, actually shows how messed-up the world can be.

And to clarify, I agree with you. I want the days where you could show a cartoon with someone getting shot in the face! What happened to the good ol' violence of Tom and Jerry, Popeye, Looney Tunes, and all the others? Oh yeah, moms that the violence left a 'bad impression' on the young kids. And with the stuff you talked about. Now you can hardly show a cigarette or a bottle of whiskey without the show being for 'adults.' Yes, I know I'm not that old and shouldn't give a crap about this, but you revealed to me the truth: today's cartoons, while not always terrible, have hindered kids instead of helped them. Hell, even today's sitcoms have ruined kids! Old days were better.

And yes, there is a 95% chance you'll see a talking monkey. Utter proof that today's cartoons are lacking.

Sorry, left out 'moms thought that...' Sorry, again. And one thing to add onto the gun thing, nowadays a gun can rarely be shown on kid's cartoons, let alone fired.

I found Watership Down on DVD at the local trade-in store for $8.
Thank GOD I got some birthday money today! :D

Some time ago, Disney's Peter Pan was aired on public TV. Now, I've never had the opportunity to watch it through all the way (and still haven't), but I didn't realize that Peter Pan really, REALLY had no qualms with killing Hook. I also didn't realize the cultural insensitivity of "What makes the red man red" and that women aren't allowed to party with the guys, but instead must serve the grub. :P Some things you miss from childhood, some things you don't.

Oh yeah, my sweetie and I went for a walk recently and stopped in at Blockbuster to make fun of their selection. There was an animated feature called Persepolis in the bargain bin for $10... I've never heard of it before, but I guess it's a serious drama about an Iranian girl struggling during the Islamic revolution. Seemed pretty good...

yr AWESOOOOOOOOOOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I know you guys have all waited with baited breath over my opinion, so I think i might as well begin with: I agree but also disagree.

you mention movies, but those movies seem like only the movies that will try to get out your point, while never showing anything that actually disagree with your opinion. In the time of movies such as all dogs go to heaven, there were vary happy-go-lucky kids movies, I noticed you comparison between watership down and madagascar;.......... WHAT!? a parent with a child who takes said child to madagascar now, would not take the same child to watership down in 78. They were for different age groups, I get your point that movies such as watership down and all dogs go to heaven are moving slowly further down the age groups, but I still see sex jokes, gore, and even some foul language in kids movies nowadays, some that I don't think hsowed up back in the day. I would gladly take my kid to ice age, or madagascar, because while we can, we need to keep them kids, as overprotective as todays world is, do you really think there is no reasoning behind it. I hate to sound like a 30 year old concerned parent, but I hate walking down the street and seeing 10 year old kids trying to cuss out as many people as they can and trying to be a gang, and threatening who they think they can, no thats for at least teenagers. I would take my kid to a kid movie, and then a movie like watership down, it is a progression, kids movies are getting more innocent, but there are still the kind of movies you saw years ago, but not for 9 year olds (if you didn't know that is who goes to madagascar. I wish they kept the movies the same for kids movies, but they haven't changed all that alarmingly, If you haven't noticed kids have even gotten MORE adult like, and you may say otherwise, but them being a kid for at least a while isn't bad. And look at video games, I used to jump on turtles at ten, and on Black Friday i met a mother getting Gears of war 2 and grand theft auto for her ten year old. I could argue against you, but I think the arguements more so cancel themselves out. And of course I miss the good old days, who here doesn't, but they are here still, just in a different form, I think if we learned anything from past events, like the us election, it's that change is inevitable, and if we can't fihgt it, then why not just try to mold it to the image we would rather it be.

WOW that was super long, end rant, that may have gotten out of hand but it should get my point across, this happens to be the first time I've disagreed with you Negative one, and I'm nt really even fully disagreeing, thanks 4 ure time. And hope to see some new games from you soon, they'll be great if I know anything about the world.

But if my opinion can be summed up it's : I think the world is getting more protective because kids are getting more mature on their own.

well i wached all ya movies ok

-flips picture in Paint- If it's upside-down with inverted colors, Watership Down doesn't look so gory. :P

ell negative one i do agree, that the Incredibles was terrible, plain awful even from a child's perspective probably.s no one thought about this though: If Disney, Pixar, Deamworks and other companies like them aren't going to make more mature movies, then simply find a PG13 or PG movie that could technically doubles a childs movie. Something that gives out live lessons, entertains, but doesn't limit itself too terribly.

I was playing NGR for the first time in forever. I went to the credits(Don't know why), and noticed that there was a small area in the bottom-right of the screen that was clickable. When I clicked it, it brought me back to the original menu when you first make your file. I still had all of my grounds gold, etc., but I changed my name. Strange.

Didn't think I'd be making another NGR post anytime soon.

Can you believe people are "still" goin wild for ya group game eva made

Amen. But if anyone reading this is one of those asses who allways needs to blame somone, blame the PTA. It was thier horrible idea (if even that!) that led to the mass cencorship. Someday I am making a dark Childrens movie just to piss 'em off. P.S. the last Mimzy got fairly dark, darker than the Incredibles but not as dark as the Dark Knight.

Hey wheres the Fancy Pants stage? PS:Merry Christmas to you.

Where did we go wrong, indeed? People like Don Bluth were geniuses in their field. Hell, I remember back in that day when anime was a scarcity, and every bit of it was pure gold. People have definitely gone soft when it comes to stuff like this... I remember Watership Down from first grade, and it was a unique experience.

These days, it feels very few people are trying to keep that fire going. Miyazaki, for example, is one of the few mainstream animations I still bother to pay any attention to. You have some very good points, and thank you for reminding ME of a time when animation was definitely in it's prime. Hopefully those days will come again soon enough.

Really, though, you could just make a huge sign appear as soon as you start the game: "NO MORE UPDATES! " And then if people STILL ask for updates, take half the characters out for a week. That'll teach 'em.

I can see it now: "WHY ISN'T MASTER CHIEF IN THE RPG?!?"

I'm pretty sure turn based RPGs can actually have a wider variety of characters, though,because they don't need to walk or jump or anything and only need a few moves. "Charlie used Wrath of the Banana King!"

Okay, maybe not THAT wide a variety of characters. =)

I completely agree. What happened? I grew up in the 90's were every disney movie you saw had the truthful theme of death and deciet. I can't even turn on my T.V. to channels I used to love like cartoon network with out seeing this garbage. I'm not saying "YES GIVE EVERY CARTOON AS MUCH BLOOD AND VIOLENCE AS POSSIBLE" but at least make it realistic so our kids don't end up thinking everything is sunshine and lolipops as they get older. And to the people who are "offended" by these cartoons and don't want there kids to get "twisted" by them. All I can say is why don't you do your job as a parent and teach your kids about things they may not understand instead of blaming the animators and writers who spend there time working on these movies and shows.

I remember watching that show when I was like 6 years old. Now that I watched it again as a 14 year old, I think. . . GOD DAMN, I never relised how dodgy and weird that movie was. As of course I did enjoy watching it now, but I never remembered it being that bad.

It's like those really weird BBS shows, now there weird :P

Yeah I miss some of them. Like Oliver and company

wow. Tht must have been a lot of typing....hmm, it's 1:22 AM where I am so I better get some sleep...Yawn...

100!

And what's up with the top notch Voice Actors that are washed up from old sitcoms?

And how do they expect kids to know who Ben Stiller is?

Personally, I've always found Japanimation to have the most depth when it came to movies and T.V., especially Hayao Miyazaki. Most of his movies are set in a fantasy setting, but he hits it really hard when it comes to real world and life issues and death is always apparent.

Sucks that he's going to retire soon.

I look to my right on my shelf of my favorite vhs movies as a kid. Little Nemo and Fox and the Hound stand out most to me. Why? Not in a million years is it because there are dark themes behind them...They were compelling stories free from shananigans and humor. They used few characters and attached the audience by focusing on these few characters. Madagascar and Incredibles, I admit, they were fun to watch, but when you get down to the bare bones, it's really nothing more than 20 animal characters running around doing stupid shit. It's not even like lion king.

Speaking of which, in Lion King, it shows a perfect example of character development. Mufasa dies and Simba learns to cope with his problems and make better of himself. Yes he had to use violence OMG VIOLENCE, but who gives a shit? It's all a metaphor. That's what lions do. If a parent is not good enough at telling their children what the difference between a lion and a human is, that's not the movies' fault.

But back to my original point, I am saddened by the sudden releases of childish 3d animation. I don't believe 3d animation is bad, it just gets a bad rep when nothing but childrens movies come out of it.

Monsters Inc was for children and one of the first good 3d movies besides toy story. It's sort of dark like some of toy story, but they are still nothing like traditionally animated 2d films.

Gee i didn't think i'd write that much

(and this post is like 2 months late but i saw you were still responding)

I agree, Lion King was the ultimate masterpeice of child movies.

I recently got Toy Story on DVD. Guess I don't need to find the VHS. =P

dude watership down was one of the most goreiest kiddiest animation ive seen ps [its space chimps and the movie sucked ass]

pps ive seen princess monenoke[and all of Hayao Miazakis great films} and im thinking some japenese people are really brutal like 4 instance the new forbidden siren game had a small child getting chased by zombies and in resi evil 2 sherry birkin is gettin attacked by zombies [but survives] and have u seen all of these really fuckin scary jap horrors like the grudge and KM31. and when i saw princess monenoke i said how the fuck is this a kiddie like animation supposed to be so fuckin violent people dying people bleeding a river of that demon gods blood animals attaking humans.i think that some of the japenese are taking there advertisment to far and movies and animation i mean i havent seen spirited away but as a tiny tiny child i got scared[it was when i was 2] and kids dont know ben stiller he is in more adultiey films i mean look at the kids show dr who there are so many parts that scare some kids like the statues that if you blink they get closer and closer and if they touch u you die.and if you have seen watership down it was to gorery and the worst animation film ive ever seen has got to be renissance its a bad film but createive it has the art like that new game capcom[or nintendo] are releseing mad world. so your right

In my view, there are two different ideas behind Pixar / Disney movies. First is to tell the story of a cute or lovable thing that learns a lesson (Disney's Job). Second is to showcase new animation software (Pixar's Job). On the Disney side of things, there always seem to be more adult themes and references when they write for Pixar films. As you might guess, I go see Pixar movies to see their animation skills.

On the same note of "Adult Themes in Kids Movies", when was the last time you watched Shrek? The first time I went to see it was with my Dad and one of his friends. For reasons I didn't understand at the time, we left early. After watching it again recently, I understand why.

Shrek has the most disgusting sense of adult humor I've ever seen hidden in a kids movie. Between penis jokes through Lord Farqua (or whatever) and a Gingerbread Man who makes jokes about cannibalism, you have Snow White portrayed as a slut, and the ever blatant "Donkey". And every bit of it is hilarious.

In short, adult themes aren't gone from kids movies, their just hidden.

i know rite

Although your right that we should not feed children the image of a perfect world we should not only feed them the truth. Some things they don't need to know, and some they do. And sometimes the happy joyful movies like madagascar there are pretty good for entertainment. What they are expecting is for parents to stay out of the governements/whatever runst he movies and books and all that- in ohter words the people who own those things expect parents to stay out of their hair if they put in happy joyful perfection. At that point they are saying quit your bitching and teach your kids the truth yourself- we're sick of your pickiness.

Why I prefer japanese cartoons. Those people seem to still hold on what we lost.

I want to see Watership Down. I've only read the book :(

Totally agree, I didn't think about it in that way, you're right in every aspect of it.

And I like your extended vocabulary. Makes it important.

and what is dani12345 fuckin talkin about?

Watership Down...book, film and TV series, all were pretty much perfect.

I would say it's best to start with the book, it's much easier to understand the kind of social structure and community the rabbits built up through it. Either way...get this fucking thing.

Any updates soon?

Trust me, as a kid growing up in the mid-90s, All Dogs Go to Heaven was by far one of the most influential movies that continues to lay within my subconscious, not only for the sheer amount of lessons to be gained from its content but from the simpler fact that it made me hug my own dogs very, very tightly that evening after seeing it.

I often joke to people about the sheer amount of "questionable content" that appeared not only in feature films, but in daily cartoons as well (anyone remember the Marijuana shop in the background scenery of Freakazoid? No? Only me? Huh, people sure said it was easily identifiable and dangerous...), but has since been replaced with anthropomorphic character after anthropomorphic character in order to portray bad events as "not identifiable with humans" if they should occur.

I seriously think this lackadaisical nature is what's leading to lackluster performances at work when kids and teens expect life to be easily fixed when broken, and easy to cater to their schedule, that if they screw up, everything will be "alright" in the end without some heavy duty asskissing.

censorship doesn't help anyone, i say let kids watch anything, but teach them how to understand what they're viewing critically or how to choose movies and shows on their own. we can't blame the media, the only reason movies are out there is to make a buck (i'm not saying that the film directors are insincere, there are some magnificent filmmakers/artists/storytellers out there - but they only have a chance to do what they love because companies thought it could make money) no, the problem is parents have stopped teaching kids how to make choices, understand reality, and become critical thinkers. naturally, the media is taking that and shooting out sugary movies to spoonfeed these parents who are looking for the easiest way out.

i've never seen all dogs goto heaven, or the watership movie (read the book, didn't understand the trauma it apparently caused :P) one movie i've liked though is Fantastic Planet. its hardly as gruesome as Watership Down may be, but it provides another realm that few children's movies have nowadays - surreality - also it presents powerful themes: evolution, the differences (or lack thereof) between man and animal, war and compromise.

I totally agree with you dude. I grew up watching a couple of these movies. But like the Golden Age of Hollywood, it died down. At least I got memories of watching those movies, tucked away in my head.

Another good thing about All Dogs go to Heaven is that it takes place in 1939 New Orleans, Louisiana, corruption at its finest and I live near New Orleans. All Dogs go to Heaven 2 sucked because it didn't have those adult themes to it, Don Bluth did not do it and could not do it since the main character Charlie (played by BURT REYNOLDS) unlike 2 (played by charlie sheen), there was a huge fucking time skip, and it was in San Franciso, California.

I forgot to add that he died and could not come back to life.

I was playing NGR again, and I read a few of the comments. One guy had a point. Newgrounds Rumble would be great with Achievements. Y'know, beat it on Hard, beat it with every character, get a certain score in survival mode, complete all the challenges, etc. And then the secret ones, like figure out how to play as Henchman(=3), transform into every character as Convict at least once, Etc. 'Course then people would once again think you're still updating the game, so...Yeah. Sure felt good to think of ones that would be possible, though. =)

Oh, damn, by achievements, I meant medals, like with Thing Thing Arena 3 and Portal Defenders.

i used to watch watership down alot when i was a child, its still one of my favorites. most of todays animations movies are like "a group of talking animals escape from the zoo and try to surive in the wild" i really bothers me that they cant come up whit something new and intresting, so im just gonna stick whit the classic ones :)

jeesus live with the times

I may agree with you, but I also agree with Egoraptor on what you said. Animated stuff in the vein of Beast Machines, Dungeons and Dragons, Aeon Flux, Fist of the North Star, Exo Squad, Heavy Traffic (another Ralph Bakshi movie and it's my favorite of all of his 70s stuff), Ark (a CG film by the same studio behind FF: The Spirits Within, but it's worth watching), and Team America (to a lesser extent) are sorely needed right now. Not to be rude, but I'm one of those few who don't really care for Hayao Miyazaki's movies. I'll take Kaori Yuki's stories, though (Highly recommended).

Not to whine,but why isnt still in NGR Fancy Pants stage?

He's not updating NGR anymore. Sure, we all want him to, but you can only work for so long on one game. He added a character a full year after the game was added, which is much longer than most artists update their games. I know I suggested adding medals above, but that was more of just a fantasy than a real suggestion(sorta =P). He's not updating it again.

Well said!

HAVE CHILDREN WITH ME! NOW!

This is truly depressing. Animation has really went down the toilet. I have no addendum to add to this . . . so what can I say? I hope that the newest generation of animators learn to hate the current state of things, but I doubt that the studios will want to throw computer shit out the door.

I agree, nowadays everything is either censored or cheaply cut up with filters to make it seem good.

Have you ever thought about parents who dont want to let their child watch those kinds of movies? gah i dont know wtf im talking about.

Too bad i only saw the edited version on teletoon a while back.

didn't get to see any blood or anything. :(

You're totally right dude. They expect us to completely enjoy childhood carefree. I guess they think ignorance is bliss, that is until we turn eighteen and the world bites our heads off like it has for every adult that exists today. I understand trying to make childhoods happy, but it should be used more for learning about the coming battle that is what we call life. Fortunately for me, unlike many other children of the nineties, my baby sitter had many what people might today call graphic animated films for children.

Any other updates with something else,other than NGR?

Ah, how puss we are today. Even though we say there's too much violence in the media, from your standput we have too little.

Though I got to say, there are some modern cartoons I do like.

The thing is I totally agree with, and more, the problem is that disney and other companies don't care anymore if the storyline is as good for childs or adults... so does the humor...

will you make a newgrounds rumble 2?

laugh out motha fucking loud 1978 to 2008

DUSTY ASS VCR

Totally agree with this rant. You ever tried copying the VHS to DVD? there are ways around the 'block' on the VHS too. ^__^

i miss the good ole days when disney was gruesome and Penis was a common found thing. lol

the answer is 73

blame parents with there 'to much carring'

Couldn't agree with you more. What happened to these new "kid's movies"?They're disgusting excuses for movies with predictable stories, flat characters, and the assurance of a third rate sequal coming out within a year or two. Showing a bit of blood, or dropping a light curse here or there isn't going to give a child a mental breakdown! When wil parents stop being so overprotective?! (My guess is never) And when will these asses in Hollywood stop milking out that defensiveness. It really just sickens me....

Man, that was great. I feel ya.

Wow this was posted on my birthday last year.

Anyway, I have all the watership down and The animals of farthing wood films (could get quite a lot for them in a few years time) and I used to find them brilliant, personally I was better prepared for the sick world this is than say my sister, who only watches these rubbishy Disney movies (i'm not saying the animation is bad, it's just the content) and now she sees the world as an innocent place full of wonderfullness, I mean seriously, when we watched Forest Gump she had nightmares for like 3 days. It's ridiculous.

Bring back films of rabbits ripping eachothers throats out!

Whats wrong with every parent and "society" kids are always thinking that the world is perfect, peaceful, friendly and thats not good at all....makes kids stupid and doesnt know anything about true trust or friendship at all! because of the movies and tv programs...kids think that the one they met a minute ago is his/her friend and thats just wrong and they think that if they have a problem anyone will be kind enough to help and thats a big lie in this world dammit! and what will happen to a kid that looks at those kind of unrealistic movies and they have a big problem like child molest or rape....he/she will become an emo when he/she becomes a teenager and become a burden and a parasite to everyone else....and we wont develop this way! everything is becoming so stupid around kids...and kids themselves too...and that pisses everyone...

Hmmm That is an interesting point. Never really saw it that way and its kinda ironic considering the trend with a lot of movies and television shows seem to be as time goes on you can get away with more and more stuff. Also umm I know you aren't an expert or anything but do you know if any of the older movies have a conflict that isn't "man vs. man"(or in some cases anthromorphic equilvant of man). I mean when I think about it seems like all Disney/Pixar movies have that conflict. You know there's always a villian not just a character fighting their own demons or braving the elements. I might have to check out that Watership Down movie and All Dogs Go To Heaven for that matter (kinda remember some parts but not much).

WATERSHIP DOWN

I read this post a long time ago, and never thought twice about some of the movies you discussed. Stumbling upon your page again, I recently watched Watership Down. I was very impressed with it, not just the story, but the artwork. The fact that it looks so well done and that it took time to do it...not saying that today's childrens' movies don't take work, but I mean if you just look at older stuff...in my opinion, the older stuff looked better.

And yeah, I agree 100% with the getting children ready for the real world: these new childrens' movies are just little fairy tales that feed the imagination; not preparing children at all for the cold dark reality waiting for them when they are older.

A couldnae agree more!
I saw both Watership Down & All Dogs Go To Heaven at a very early age and they are very gritty in comparison to the more modern films.
I much! prefer the old ones! =]

i totally agree with you

Your absolutely right...thats all I can say...

(and I love 'All dogs go to Heaven',)

A secret missing episode of Madagascar needs to be made.

I Don't know if this has anything to do with this post.
There is somthing very strange that keeps happening on Newgrounds Rumble!!!
What happens is, a screen pops up and says game spript can not be read and computer ect. , and when i click on the Yes button the game just goes nuts!!
Pictures start appearing and dissapearing and weird beeping noises start and the game becomes un rersponsive. i dont know if its my computer but you sould see if somthing is wrong.

Here's a recommendation: A Boy Named Charlie Brown. I haven't seen this in a long time, but this is how a kids movie with a deep message should be.

today EVERYTHING is to cutesy thay limit gore down little nosebleeds and such

Don't worry about that vhs hahahah http://www.amazon.com/All-Dogs-Heaven -Loni-Anderson/dp/B000056H26/ref=sr_1 _1?ie=UTF8&qid=1248584996&sr=
8-1

Hey Negative, how bout those medals eh ? =D

i most say that was long what you wrote but hey u certainly made me think and i must say your right man!

im 17 but i agree were getting a little to be as you said "fairy and gumdrop bullshit"

Whats with the Newgrounds Gateway or something like that in NGR,a hint or something?