Korgha 2008-11-10 13:47:22

AMEN

ChookChukley 2008-11-10 14:02:32

I just gotta say I agree with you wholeheartedly on this. On a related note, I'm worried as to where our culture in general is going. It's a very rare day when I see something in "mainstream" culture that really pushes me to think about it. Maybe that's why I'm a fan of stand-up comedy; the good comedians unhesitantly point out the ironies of society and cause the audience, even whilst laughing, to consider the situation, to simply think at all.

In the same vein as those who posted about "Princess Mononoke" and "Spirited Away," two of my favorite films are Otomo's "Akira" and "Laputa: Castle in the Sky," another Miyazaki classic. Both deal with the corruption that comes with power, and in the end of both films a lot of people die. But these newer films that get pumped out like candy will make transhumanists of us all; no matter how long we try and put off the sadder stuff - whether through biotechnology or by shielding our kids' eyes - it's going to come eventually, and simply knowing about these things isn't going to warp anyone into some kind of social deviant.

Except maybe the good kind. :-P

Dazmi 2008-11-10 14:13:28

I'm going to say this without reading that big long paragraph, sorry.

I don't really miss the old days that much.
I do admit Madagascar sucks, but there are still 2-D animations that kids enjoy.

Quidoo 2008-11-10 14:27:54

It seems I had a childhood in the midst of the emerging 'fairy gumdrop bullshit' as you most accurately phrased it. I know what i've missed though, after seeing some of these older animated films. Watership down is probably my favourite animated film that i've seen. I need to see that 'All Dogs go to Heaven', I haven't heard of it before now.

What do you mean when you say that The Incredibles was daring? I thought it was just as stupid as the rest. Or did I miss something?

Anyway, you are completely right about this, but it isn't just films, not at all. The whole world is starting with all this political correctness goat puke. The idea sounds good: being able to make everone seem as respected as everyone else. But really now, nowadays some people are saying it isn't right to call a black man 'black', you have to call him a 'man of colour' what the hell? Also, it isn't right to say someone is overweight, they are 'abdominally challenged'. I don't know what it's like in the US but over here (UK) it really is like that sometimes. The New Zealand rugby team weren't even allowed to perform the Haka on the pitch before the game, they had to do it in the bloody changing rooms.

The worst case of this is when I went into a cafe, I looked at the menu and what did I see? There was no black coffee or white coffee. No. There was coffee with cream and coffee without cream. That incident really made by boil up inside.

The biggest problem with this though is that it really prevents us from being able to communicate with other people. If I was curious about say a friend who was Hindu, and I wanted to ask them something out of curiosity, but it was a 'sensitive issue' I would be afraid to ask. This would then make me miss out on their particular beliefs or ways of living, which far from making everone respect everyone else, would push the two cultures apart. Understanding something is the first step to accepting something after all.

That was only partly related to this post but I feel that it still has some credibility. Also, I needed somewhere to vent off how I feel about how ridiculous this whole thing is =]

I feel better now.

Quidoo 2008-11-10 14:37:41

Hehe, whoops. You live in Canada, not the US, sorry about that =]

cafeenerush21 2008-11-10 14:41:55

i couldn't agree with you more. although i don't know if watership down was intended as a children's story, but i'm not sure.
but yea, all this wholesome bull isn't helping children at all these days. they're too coddled and protected so reality slaps them in the face twice as hard as past generations.
all dogs go to heaven was the shit. for some reason right now i'm reminded of The Last Unicorn and Little Nemo i can't remember how 'dark' those were, though. ever see the anti-nazi looney toons?

Koopa-Dude94 2008-11-10 14:56:26

Ah, yeah, Lion King is another one of my favorite classics. And it's not as sugar-coated as some of the movies today. They don't show Scar getting ripped to pieces by hyenas, but at least they acknowledge the fact that things can actually die. Also, when I think of All Dogs go to Heaven, I also think of Oliver&Company for some reason. All this talk makes me want to go through all of the crates of VHS movies in our basement.

God, I love Disney and Pixar.

NextToNothing 2008-11-10 15:27:49

As boogley pointed out we're in a time where we isolate our selves from the world's problems. As a collective we block out the problems facing the worst off on the planet and we pass this oblivion on to our children. We even shield them from what we consider the worst parts of our society by traditionally moving out to subebia to escape the horrors that are poverty and crime (for most middle aged whites, even if they won't admit it, that means some minority or another).

They then pass their views onto their kids attempting to hide them away from this oh so dangerous world and mask their eyes with movies of light hearted themes. And that masking is healthy and in a genetic sense natural, nothing is going to change those people from wanting to shield their children from societies "imperfections".
The problem is the market has simply shrunk for those darker movies, if every parent who wanted their children to see those movies went to the Triplets of Belleville and it grossed a significant amount of money, I can guarentee more movies that stray from the lighter side would pop up. Studios, in the end, need to make money. No one person can really change the market and you certainly aren't going to modify the views of over protective parents.
In the end you should just enjoy you're children get the "advantage" that theirs didn't, thus they breed more succesfully, show their children these movies who then breed and so on; all while the children of those over protective parents wallow in their destroyed views of the world only to die alone and depressed unable to pass their cutesy movies down or vice versa. Darwin wins once again?

HiniberusDelius 2008-11-10 15:41:04

I remember "All dogs go to heaven" it was a great show and I loved it at the time. Though I know not of all the other shows you speak of. Though seriously I'd be scared to show a seven year old a picture of a blood covered rabbit. Don't you think the child may have some thoughts about touching the school rabbit?

I mean mind you they'll believe everything they see on TV so if they see a rabbit going on a massive killing spree they'd be hella scared to go near it. At least that's my guess. Though it's true the "Try hard and you'll manage it!" is bull.

I say that I should fuckin' write a script and make my own series showing modern life, with deaths, love, passion, depression, money and drugs and all the shit that happens in modern life.

Not just the "Aww man I got fired from my job have to go find another one" but one that involved the death of the father because while he was a normal working man they had financial debts and at night had to do some drug dealings. Something that dosn't just show the happy happy joy joy part of life but also the beatings and shit part of it.

Catoblepas 2008-11-10 16:46:10

if they'd let my cartoons to tv everything ´'d be fix'd.

Renandchi2 2008-11-11 00:38:34

Dude, I'm 12 (I know, underage, blah blah), and even for me, TV is so drastically different than when I was a lot younger, watching Nick, CN and Disney...
Now, most shows on the 3 channels have toilet humor everywhere! It's dumb as fuck! When I switch to Nick sometimes, I see crap 85% of the time, no joke. That's why I watch Comedy Central and Fox mainly; kid shows nowadays SUCK. Sometimes, Disney has a few good shows and stuff (I'll admit it, I love Suite Life), but it can't live up to the old days...
Well, at least there's still kid shows and movies being made at all...

Koopa-Dude94 2008-11-12 20:11:14

Figures, though, that Toy Story is the ONE VHS I can ever remember owning that I can't find in my basement. I found the sequel, but I want to see the original... I DID watch Bug's Life, Emperor's New Groove, Ice Age, and a few others. Ah, memories.

Egoraptor 2008-11-13 21:42:05

So let them be inspired. Who are you to say what people should be inspired by?

Kahze 2008-11-14 03:22:28

Have you seen WALL-E? I found it to be a really subtle and sophisticated piece. It kind of proved to me that you can sort of sidestep bleakness while dealing with some pretty serious themes.

There's a lot of shit out there now, but surely there are films that break the mold.
I have the triplets of Belleville sitting on my shelf, haven't quite explored that one yet. But right next to it is Watership Down and Tale of Tales, which are both old films that are pretty damn great. So I dont know, for the most part I guess there has been a shift.

M00SHEEP 2008-11-18 10:44:15

The older, the better. Just look at the original animations, theyre much funnier than modern day ones.

All though Wall-E is cool in a messed up way :D

NightTheWildcat 2008-11-19 20:17:32

This is actually one reason I like Daredevil comics (and some others like it, for thaqt matter). Yes, I know it's not animation, but still. It doesn't try to show him as a good guy who always defeats the bad guy with nothing (or almost nothing) bad happening to him. It shows that just because you're a hero, good things don't always happen to you, it shows that life often times is going to suck, you will lose a lot of things and people that you love, that good people will often suffer, and bad people will often get all the good things. It also shows that through it all, the only thing that can always keep you going is sheer will.

In short, Daredevil, while not an animation, actually shows how messed-up the world can be.

And to clarify, I agree with you. I want the days where you could show a cartoon with someone getting shot in the face! What happened to the good ol' violence of Tom and Jerry, Popeye, Looney Tunes, and all the others? Oh yeah, moms that the violence left a 'bad impression' on the young kids. And with the stuff you talked about. Now you can hardly show a cigarette or a bottle of whiskey without the show being for 'adults.' Yes, I know I'm not that old and shouldn't give a crap about this, but you revealed to me the truth: today's cartoons, while not always terrible, have hindered kids instead of helped them. Hell, even today's sitcoms have ruined kids! Old days were better.

And yes, there is a 95% chance you'll see a talking monkey. Utter proof that today's cartoons are lacking.

NightTheWildcat 2008-11-19 20:19:11

Sorry, left out 'moms thought that...' Sorry, again. And one thing to add onto the gun thing, nowadays a gun can rarely be shown on kid's cartoons, let alone fired.

silly-stungun-millie 2008-11-22 00:18:34

I found Watership Down on DVD at the local trade-in store for $8.
Thank GOD I got some birthday money today! :D

Some time ago, Disney's Peter Pan was aired on public TV. Now, I've never had the opportunity to watch it through all the way (and still haven't), but I didn't realize that Peter Pan really, REALLY had no qualms with killing Hook. I also didn't realize the cultural insensitivity of "What makes the red man red" and that women aren't allowed to party with the guys, but instead must serve the grub. :P Some things you miss from childhood, some things you don't.

Oh yeah, my sweetie and I went for a walk recently and stopped in at Blockbuster to make fun of their selection. There was an animated feature called Persepolis in the bargain bin for $10... I've never heard of it before, but I guess it's a serious drama about an Iranian girl struggling during the Islamic revolution. Seemed pretty good...

gagedude47 2008-11-27 19:58:18

yr AWESOOOOOOOOOOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ultramandud 2008-11-30 22:30:29

Well I know you guys have all waited with baited breath over my opinion, so I think i might as well begin with: I agree but also disagree.

you mention movies, but those movies seem like only the movies that will try to get out your point, while never showing anything that actually disagree with your opinion. In the time of movies such as all dogs go to heaven, there were vary happy-go-lucky kids movies, I noticed you comparison between watership down and madagascar;.......... WHAT!? a parent with a child who takes said child to madagascar now, would not take the same child to watership down in 78. They were for different age groups, I get your point that movies such as watership down and all dogs go to heaven are moving slowly further down the age groups, but I still see sex jokes, gore, and even some foul language in kids movies nowadays, some that I don't think hsowed up back in the day. I would gladly take my kid to ice age, or madagascar, because while we can, we need to keep them kids, as overprotective as todays world is, do you really think there is no reasoning behind it. I hate to sound like a 30 year old concerned parent, but I hate walking down the street and seeing 10 year old kids trying to cuss out as many people as they can and trying to be a gang, and threatening who they think they can, no thats for at least teenagers. I would take my kid to a kid movie, and then a movie like watership down, it is a progression, kids movies are getting more innocent, but there are still the kind of movies you saw years ago, but not for 9 year olds (if you didn't know that is who goes to madagascar. I wish they kept the movies the same for kids movies, but they haven't changed all that alarmingly, If you haven't noticed kids have even gotten MORE adult like, and you may say otherwise, but them being a kid for at least a while isn't bad. And look at video games, I used to jump on turtles at ten, and on Black Friday i met a mother getting Gears of war 2 and grand theft auto for her ten year old. I could argue against you, but I think the arguements more so cancel themselves out. And of course I miss the good old days, who here doesn't, but they are here still, just in a different form, I think if we learned anything from past events, like the us election, it's that change is inevitable, and if we can't fihgt it, then why not just try to mold it to the image we would rather it be.

WOW that was super long, end rant, that may have gotten out of hand but it should get my point across, this happens to be the first time I've disagreed with you Negative one, and I'm nt really even fully disagreeing, thanks 4 ure time. And hope to see some new games from you soon, they'll be great if I know anything about the world.

But if my opinion can be summed up it's : I think the world is getting more protective because kids are getting more mature on their own.